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"This is the era of 'corruption without bribes'. Social control is absolutely necessary."
Dr. & Rev. Kim Geo-Sung, former Senior Presidential Secretary for Civic and Social Affairs on the 'International Anti-Corruption Day'
Dec. 09, 2020 10:54 l Final Update Dec. 09, 2020 10:54 l Interviewed by Dr. Kim Sung-soo (@wadans) for OhmyNews
▲ Pastor & Dr. Kim Geo-Sung (right) with President of ROK Moon Jae-In (left), when he was Senior Presidential Secretary for Civil and Social Affairs View related photos ⓒ Kim Geo-Sung
Every year December 9th is the 'International Anti-Corruption Day'. So on the occasion of this day, the reporter Dr. Kim Sung-soo interviewed Rev. Kim Geo-Sung, a former Board Member of Transparency International and former chairperson of Transparency International - Korea (South), about corruption issues in South Korea. He has been Senior Presidential Secretary to the President of ROK for civil and social affairs for about a year since August 2019. The following is an interview with Rev. Kim Geo-Sung from the 1st to the 8th of December 2020.
- What was the most rewarding and regrettable experiences about being a senior secretary in the past one year?
"The most rewarding experience was that we were able to confer the Order of Civil Merit to those who sacrificed their devotion to democracy and labours' rights in our society. On June 10, at the 33rd anniversary of the June Uprising of 1987, the government presented the Order of Civil Merit Moran Medals to Lee Han-yeol's mother, Ms. Bae Eun-sim, and the 11 deceased, and the Civil Merit Medals to the Father James Sinot and the Reverend George Ogle.
On November 13, 2020, the government also awarded the Order of Civil Merit Mugungwha Medal to mark the 50th anniversary of Jeon Tae-il's sacrifice. I thought this was the minimum responsibility that the nation and the people should do to them. Of course, remembering them and conferring them medals shouldn't end up alone. We hope that the law on honouring of democratization movement contributors should be enacted, and above all, it will serve as an opportunity to take over their desire and make more efforts to create a country where people and life come first.
What was regrettable for me was the education for democratic citizenship. I have thought that it is necessary for our country to develop democracy more sustainably through democratic citizenship education. However, I left Cheong Wa Dae after setting the agenda without settling the system and programs. Democratic citizenship education is not a so-called ‘instruction’ of the people, but a process of expressing and listening to each other's opinions on a controversial issues and gathering a kind of social consensus. The purpose is to further strengthen the capabilities of democracy of the people through such processes.
It is hoped that not only in school education but also in society, as well as in various areas of the nation, these things will be properly pursued. There have been such voices that have consistently demanded and stressed about democratic citizenship education in schools, but tasks have not yet been fully presented for that in society. I think one of the tasks is to fully reflect the understanding and practice of democratic citizenship education in the process of student performance evaluations and entrance exams, employment exams, and promotion and managerial qualifications.”
- You were elected as a Board Member of Transparency International twice and served from 2004 to 2010. What did you feel when you were a Board Member of Transparency International?
“Above all, I felt that corruption is not an issue only in certain countries, and whether it is a country that is well-off or difficult to live in the world, we are struggling against it. Also, through my activities in TI movement, I realized that there is no specific panacea for curbing corruption, but rather a holistic approach needed, and that various sectors such as the public sector, the private sector, and civil society should play a role together and continue to work. I served in the accreditation committee, the audit committee, the ethics committee and the integrity award committee. Even, Transparency International itself, an anti-corruption organization, has been making its efforts to be thorough in internal governance, e.g. compliance with the code of conduct, and management of ethical issues."
- The 19th International Anti-Corruption Conference (IACC) was held in Korea in early December 2020. How would you rate the significance of this IACC?
“The IACC hosted by South Korea was originally scheduled to be held last June. However, it was postponed due to the spread of Covid-19, and was finally held in December 2020, in addition, online. From November 30 to December 7, 2020 more than 7,000 people registered online and participated from all over the world. In 2003, the 11th IACC was held also in South Korea. However, this conference has achieved certain results in promoting anti-corruption efforts and anti-corruption will of Korean society toward the international community. At the same time, it also played a major role in sharing anti-corruption efforts of the international community in Korea.
The IACC was usually limited to between 1200 and 1500 participants, as it was originally required to pay KRW 500,000 to 700,000 in registration fees in addition to airfare and accommodation expenses. However, about five times as many people participated because this meeting was held online using Zoom or YouTube and they did not have to pay any expenses. Despite the fandom, Transparency International, which is in charge of IACC practice, evaluated it as a big success.
In Korea, the Anti-Corruption and Civil Rights Commission organized and prepared the event, with a total of 7,480 people registered, including 234 Korean participants. In the case of the plenary session, the organizers provided interpreters to share these contents. So it was a good opportunity to understand the anti-corruption trend of the international community. And all of Korea's anti-corruption efforts, such as the Korean Pact on Anti-Corruption and Transparency (K-PACT), were interpreted into UN official six languages toward the international community. Thus, through these processes, we were able to fully inform the international community of Korea's anti-corruption will and best practices.
In addition, the contents of each session can be viewed again through YouTube after the conference. Thus, I hope it can be a model for non-face-to-face meetings. However, there were some technical problems. In Korea, we actually took the sacrifice because of the time difference, and there were some problems with accessibility because meetings were held mainly in the evening to dawn. Nevertheless, it was the most important achievement that we were able to share this trend of global anti-corruption initiatives, the latest interest, and these things in all areas, including our officialdom."
"The selective use of prosecutorial power is corruption in a broad sense"
▲ Seoul High Prosecutors' Office and Seoul Central District Prosecutors' Office in Seocho-gu, Seoul. ⓒ Kwon Woo-sung
- What do you think is the biggest problem with the nation's prosecution? What kind of government effort do you think is needed to reform and control the prosecution?"
“No power can be tolerated to use an entrusted authority unjustly and recklessly. The prosecutorate's right to dispose of the prosecution should be called corruption in a broad sense if it abuses it harshly on one side and leniently on the other. Article 19 of the United Nations Convention Against Corruption reads as follows: ‘(Abuse of functions) Each State Party shall consider adopting such legislative and other measures as may be necessary to establish as a criminal offence, when committed intentionally, the abuse of functions or position, that is, the performance of or failure to perform an act, in violation of laws, by a public official in the discharge of his or her functions, for the purpose of obtaining an undue advantage for himself or herself or for another person or entity.’
Wasn't it the Corruption Investigation Office for High-ranking Officials that civil society has been constantly demanding to meet this spirit of the Convention? The reason to keep December 9th every year as International Anti-Corruption Day is to respect and practice the spirit of the UNCAC, not just to hold ceremonial events.
If the prosecution does a secret investigation of judges or condones illegalities and takes time, then this is what we should call corruption in a broad sense, right? It's hard to request for anything from a former political service public official's point of view. But It is never acceptable whether it is the prosecution or the military for some not entrusted powers to steal the sovereignty of the people.”
- What is the biggest threat to democracy in the country now and what efforts do you think people need to make to overcome it?"
“Isn't democracy literally the rule of the people? The elements that threaten democracies are essentially found in a few persons controlling basic rights of the majority of people, including the freedom of the people, to satisfy their greed. This was also seen as an experience of colonialism at the international level, but today dictatorship and corruption are serious enemies of democracy that violate 'civic and political rights' and 'economic-social rights'.
In the past, ‘visible dictatorship’ such as direct violence and oppression were rampant. However, in modern times, people often suppress the rights they deserve in a more intelligent way. Examples include the injection of governing ideology or propaganda that dazzles fake news and people in some media and YouTube.
Likewise, unfortunate events are emerging, where the wealth, which should be distributed to the people fairly, is intellectually and systematically intercepted by a few in many countries. Overcoming this corruption and establishing integrity, transparency and accountability are essential tasks for the safe and sustainable development of democracies. In addition, we can expect a sustainable development of democracy based on awake citizens only when democratic citizenship education is carried out properly.”
- You served as the Inspector General of the Gyeonggido Office of Education from 2014 to 2018, and received great attention from the media for digging into corruption in private kindergartens. What was the rewarding and disappointing experience of being an inspector at that time? Also, what do you think is the biggest problem with private kindergartens in the country?
“Private kindergartens are funded by subsidies made from taxpayers' money and self-payment by parents. There have been so many corruption cases in that area. But there were no audits or inspections carried out properly. As a result, the Gyeonggido Office of Education conducted a specific audit from 2015, and in the process, we were able to find out some frauds of a part of Kindergartens.
The sad thing was that some private kindergarten directors and founders tried to physically resist audit and inspection, sent gold bar to inspecor general, or pressured through politicians, or intimidate and conciliate auditing officials or citizen auditors as if they were in the 1970s or 1980s. In fact, I was inspector general, but I just drove a free ride, blocking the draft. If there is a merit, it should be returned to the faithful auditing officials and citizen auditors.
Recently, I think it is the most rewarding thing to do, thinking that it is to establish justice late because there have been cases of returning illegally pocketed money to the education office or parents through the court.
Above all, there should be a first priority on education, quality of meals, safety and health for kindergarteners. Kindergartens are also considered schools by law. How can a school be called a school if it seeks self-interest most importantly as a hostage to its students? However, audits are not all-around. Many private kindergartens want to do it properly. As promised through the Pact on anti-corruption and transparency in Childhood Education in Gyeonggido, we hope that self-purification efforts inside private kindergartens will respond to promote the public nature of private kindergartens.”
"The age of intelligent corruption, desperate for social control."
▲ Pastor Kim Geo-sung is presenting at the International Anti-Corruption Conference on December 1st 2020. ⓒ Anti-Corruption and Civil Rights Commission
- What is "bribery free corruption" in the Dec. 1st issue of the International Anti-Corruption Conference?
“In the past, the concept of corruption was mostly synonymous with direct bribes. Basic corruption has been shown as direct bribery or extortion. However, there is more advanced and intelligent corruption: 'corruption without bribes'. It is difficult to specify who and whom they illegally made unfair profits. According to the OECD, policy capture is the process of consistently or repeatedly inducing public policy decisions out of the public interest and into the interests of a particular interest group or individual. In addition to such state capture and policy capture, there are countless cases of invisible corruption and bribery-free corruption. Let's mention some real examples. Abuse of power leads to sextortion of subordinates, customers, etc. such as casting couch, sexual assault, and sexual harassment. The so-called ‘ex-official courtesy,’ or preferential treatment for one's superiors and colleagues, allows them to earn unfair profits and also benefits themselves after retirement.
Large-scale civil engineering works are carried out that are useless and adversely affect the environment. The inflated private investment projects are adopted by the state or local governments to ensure minimum revenue guarantee of a few interest group. It does not properly conduct inspections or audits for specific interest groups. The government, public institutions, and government officials, which are operated by taxes, will launch campaigns for certain political forces. Some officials require developers to have keys that can penetrate the security of electronic procurement systems. Some abuse superior status to enforce unfair contracts.
If you look it up, there will be endless real cases. But identifying corruption as bribes makes it difficult to control 'invisible' corruption, which many perceive as more serious. In this regard, it is essential to control 'corruption without bribes' beyond the apparent control of bribery."
- What are the characteristics of the most clean or corrupt countries in the world?"
Which one is a country of integrity: the one designed the system for a particular interest group, the another for the welfare of the majority of the people? Which is the corrupt country: the one who controls information through lies and distortions, the another who seeks truth and opens up information? This is a question that applies to most of the local and public sectors as well as to the national level. The characteristics of a clean country or organization include openness, transparency, integrity without any fraud, public value, and accountability.
Naturally, betraying and blocking these values is a characteristic of corrupt countries. In addition, the consciousness and role of the private sector (business community) and civil society is also important. It is false to call clean society, because any specific sector is a first-rate. Together, we should create a clearer and more upright country."
- What strategies and efforts do you think our people and government need to make a country without corruption, a country without integrity?
“First, the signing and implementation of social pact for a fairer democratic country is required. On March 9, 2005, four major sectors, including the public, business, political sector, and civil society, participated in the signing of K-PACT and have been making efforts to implement it for several years. Furthermore, the agreement was spread into various sectors, regions, and opportunites. Transparency International praised it as a role model for anti-corruption initiatives.
Although the agreement has been neutralized by the transition to a conservative regime, I still believe that this model is the most effective and inclusive anti-corruption coalition strategy. For a fairer democratic country, there should be a big picture of each sector presenting and participating their own practical tasks and continuing practice accordingly.
Second, an anti-corruption policy is needed to focus on corruption rather than bribery. Of course, bribes have not completely disappeared, but at least Korea is no longer a 'bribery republic' where direct and routine bribery is rampant. Nevertheless, it is still difficult to be regarded as a 'democratic nation free from corruption.' It should be a more important anti-corruption policy to overcome areas where bribes are not directly visible, such as policy capture and former posts corruption, in the network of corruption. Anti-corruption agency should also have control over intelligent corruption.
Third, civil control over corruption should be strengthened. Along with the media and civil society, the public should play an active role in eradicating corruption. Anyone should report not only direct bribery or bribery, but also macro-corruption such as policy capture and privileges, and even expand the scope of public interest coverage to protect and compensate reporters when necessary. Through reports investigative journalism, the media should revolutionize the corruption structure that guarantees the interests of certain groups by distorting large-scale policies, not just only petty bribery cases.
Fourth, building a sound ethical infrastructure is essential. Failure to prevent corruption is abandoning our responsibility for the future in the long run. Therefore, anti-corruption education should be considered an essential task for a sustainable democratic country in terms of democratic citizenship education for the elderly as well as for children and adolescents. Furthermore, civil society and the government should help young people join and practice anti-corruption activities.”
· Dr. & Rev. Kim Geo-Sung became an anti-corruption advocate after 12 years of his activities in human rights and reunification movement. He was the founding Secretary General (1999-2004), Vice-Chair (2004-2007), and Chairperson (2007-2014) of TI-Korea. He served two terms as a board member of the TI Movement (2004-2010). He received Order of Civil Merit (Moran Medal) by the government (2006). He is a pastor ordained by the Presbyterian Church in the Republic of Korea (ROK) and was a Commissioner of the Korea Independent Commission Against Corruption (2005-2008), the standing Executive Officer of the Council for the Korean Pact on Anti-Corruption and Transparency (2005-2009), and the Inspector General of Gyeonggi Provincial Office of Education (2014-2018). Also, he served as Senior Presidential Secretary to the President of ROK for Civic and Social Affairs (2019-2020).